Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes? - Gawker Comments

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

KillNewYork — Mon, 12 May 2008 21:31:27 EDT

I totally knew something was up. Because I never want to fuck fat girls.

KillNewYork

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

yourfriendandneighbor — Fri, 09 May 2008 01:09:38 EDT

@debord at work: Not to mention, the ads were for cellulite reducing cream. Please. Total hypocrisy.

yourfriendandneighbor

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

dandles — Thu, 08 May 2008 22:56:15 EDT

@if_i_only_had_a_heart: Exactly. It's not like one of the women was Kate Moss and they added weight. For God's sake, we need more horrible, evil retouched adds like this.

dandles

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Seeräuber Jenny — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:27:21 EDT

@edithdoll:
If the ladies were really fine as is, or if the product worked, there'd have been no need to edit out the cellulite. If you want a cheap moisturizer that otherwise does nothing, Vaseline must be a fraction of the price.

I didn't understand why the photog and stylist didn't capitalize on the attractive aspects of being larger -- shapely curves, for example, which could have been tastefully draped.

Besides, why does a plump woman have to look good in a pair of skimpy bikini underpants to be considered attractive? I found the ads somewhat mean-spirited and condescending from the start.

Can't look up a link now, but Unilever has also weighed in on the lightening cream front.

Seeräuber Jenny

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

LaurieBrownSucksALot — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:08:02 EDT

Jesus called me, after a spell rotating in heaven, to confirm that the "devil" is an obese, snaggle-toothed, screaming, child-abusing american woman. He is also confused about her use of the term "dark side" as the only darkness in the room is coming out of her mouth. Hypocrit, monster or typical christian?

LaurieBrownSucksALot

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

tallgirl-in-heels — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:06:04 EDT

I guess "real" beauty only allows for a less than stick-thin body. Other imperfections disqualify you entirely. Yeah, this campaign is a step in the right direction, but it's still false advertising in my book. Dove sells skin care products, and presenting women with perfect skin (regardless of body shape) implies that Dove products will make your skin look this perfect, too. Um, no. Photoshop will make your skin look flawless. Do they sell Photoshop in a bottle so that I can look as good in real life as I can in retouched pictures?

tallgirl-in-heels

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

biden_my_time — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:40:14 EDT

i am not ashamed to say that this was/is the most arousing marketing campaign i've seen in a good long time.

re-touched, doi, like everything else on earth, but girls who look like they could actually withstand childbirth. thus - a campaign featuring models who actually resemble the women that most men are involved with, but a little hotter thanks to professional photography, and therefore a more realistic form of tittilation. brilliant, i say. brilliant, and hot.

biden_my_time

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Seeräuber Jenny — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:14:25 EDT

@Seeräuber Jenny:

pillowy

I hope I don't sound inconsistent in saying that I hate high definition film. I don't need to see every flaw.

Seeräuber Jenny

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Seeräuber Jenny — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:11:29 EDT

@debord at work:

Hypocrisy? I'll say.

"You're perfect -- now go use your cellulite products, girls."

@meechybee:
Its effect is insidious. When I was a kid, I remember wondering why I had small lines on my lips while the models always had satiny pillow kissers.

When I see an image, I don't pause and speculate on the retouching. My pre-verbal self responds: "Pretty." Then I wonder why no one looks like that in real life.

I don't have a problem with retouching a photo taken on a special occasion or one used as your "official" image -- if everyone's reduced to an image whether or not they like it, they should be able to fight back a little.

But it shouldn't be used in ads.

If you're a member of the sex that constantly gets compared to those fantasy images, it grates.

Seeräuber Jenny

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

HeyThatsMyBike — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:52:32 EDT

Who cares? The shot still conveys the message, and they appear much more 'real' looking than say... our "Ades Light" model from yesterday's photoshop disaster post.
@debord at work: And yes, Unilever owns pretty much everything... They'll get you fat with Heartbrand/Breyer's Ice Cream, Hellman's Mayonnaise, and those nasty Knorr meals, and then tell you to lose weight with Slim Fast. And when Slim-Fast doesn't work, they will tell you that it is OK to be "real" and to buy Dove to support that notion. It's a full-circle[jerk] operation!

HeyThatsMyBike

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

if_i_only_had_a_heart — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:28:49 EDT

@PoppyMuldoon: a while ago when the ny times sunday mag did a fashion feature with "real" people i was like, ew, bring back the models

sadness

if_i_only_had_a_heart

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

WackoJacko — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:27:56 EDT

@In Other News...: SHE'S NOT A CHRISTIAAAAAAAAAAN!

WackoJacko

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

if_i_only_had_a_heart — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:27:47 EDT

@flossy: and @Fritzpeterson: and @MisterHippity: kisses@CodePink: air kisses

if_i_only_had_a_heart

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

maxfield1 — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:15:03 EDT

@Chaim Gnadelstein: I wobble my thighs in your general direction.

maxfield1

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

SlickaNicka — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:08:41 EDT

Well, no "real" woman I know would agree to appear in a national magazine campaign in her skivvies without the promise of some retouching.

Since they are trying to sell us something, the cellulite doesn't really work to anyone's favor, does it?

SlickaNicka

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

scroll_lock — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:04:18 EDT

Jesus, I thought I was white, but the lady in the middle's so translucent I swear I can see her internal organs.

scroll_lock

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

MisterHippity — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:39:31 EDT

The touch-up was to make them look more real. He just sprayed a little real on them here and there, using his realbrush.

MisterHippity

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Itsjustcatnip — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:36:18 EDT

I doubt the whole "real women" bit just because that's Chris Crocker there in the middle.

Itsjustcatnip

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

CodePink — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:26:29 EDT

I don't want anybody else. When I think about you, I retouch myself.

CodePink

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

leilalei — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:16:59 EDT

Speaking of advertising, can someone please make the Ashton Kutcher/Nikon insanity go away?

leilalei

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Poppy Muldoon — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:11:06 EDT

Retouch, don't retouch, repeatedly show super skinnies, ban them from public view, yadda yadda ... Do whatever you like, commercial and popular culture. Cos I think I can deal with constant and repeated exposure to images of women who are prettier and smoother and less celulite-y and thinner and younger and shinier than me without being totally consumed by self-loathing... I already KNOW there are lots of ladies who are easier on the eye than me out there, but I don't subscribe to the idea that being alive is one, on-going competition to be the prettiest - so I don't mind being faced with the evidence. There's, erm, other stuff that makes a lady worthwhile. ALSO… I like looking at Pretties. They're, you know. Pretty.

Poppy Muldoon

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

hellodarling! — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:07:24 EDT

@debord at work: And Edelman is their PR company. SHOCKING.

hellodarling!

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

edithdoll — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:56:01 EDT

I agree with previous posters --
there is always retouching. Even back in the pre-digital days -- air brushing was standard on all commerical photos.

Also agree the point was these ladies are not stick thin. They are curvy or via subjectively perhaps a bit chunky, even with the editng of the cellulite-- say what you will, et al. I think the concept was to pitch to the average size woman in the US which is a 14 now I think. Since sizes are made more generously a 14 is probably what a 16 was about 20 years ago. As for Unilever of course it was just marketing part of the brand expansion from the 1/4 moisturizer soaps that melted to a whole range of body/hair products. They own Axe as well with all women & tearing clothes off -- in those commercials. Yeek.

edithdoll

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

britneyspearstears — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:49:11 EDT

@StyleSwag: Elizabeth Hurley... in the 90's right?

britneyspearstears

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

demetria23 — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:48:13 EDT

I originally read this as "Dov's Real Women" and wondered if American Apparel was going to start using plus-size models. Hah!

demetria23

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Fritzpeterson — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:45:58 EDT

@if_i_only_had_a_heart: perfect!

Fritzpeterson

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

flossy — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:37:04 EDT

@if_i_only_had_a_heart: You read my mind.

flossy

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Bell County — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:28:49 EDT

I looked more closely - this was originally a picture of the Harlem Globetrotters.

Bell County

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

In Other News... — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:26:52 EDT

@WackoJacko: "I AM A GOD WARRIOR!!!!!!!!!!!!1!"

In Other News...

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

thetaobera — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:25:17 EDT

I worked at the agency that did the dove work. I also knew one of the women from the ads (she worked at the agency). The people on the account were very clear that they did not retouch anything material (make people skinny, redo a nose, remove wrinkles). They did however cast very carefully, with emphasis bone structure and skin. Then the women were professionally lit and made up. Anyone who's seen a model or actress without makeup and lighting can attest to what a major difference that makes.

I was surprised by the fact this retoucher did work on Dove. It doesn't fit what anyone ever said about the work in the hallways or in casual conversation.

thetaobera

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Chaim Gnadelstein — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:17:54 EDT

True story: I passed by this billboard with my dad after taking him to lunch for father's day a year or two ago...and he looks up at it and he says, "You know, I like these ads -- I mean, that's what women really look like. They're fat."

Chaim Gnadelstein

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

if_i_only_had_a_heart — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:15:40 EDT

wait a minute, so they took regular thin models and retouched them to look like these?

if_i_only_had_a_heart

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

haguenite — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:14:59 EDT

I love the campaign. I'm fully aware that it's a marketing ploy. Probably one of the most succesful out there.
I didn't think about the photos being retouched before, but now that I do, it makes sense. I'm not outraged. Baby steps, cosmetics industry. Baby steps.

haguenite

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

meechybee — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:13:57 EDT

for my part, i don't understand why retouching is necessarily evil. even before photoshop, retouching was a standard practice among photographers who dodged and burned in the darkroom, and what they couldn't fix by exposure alone was enhanced by silver pigment inks.

at the very least, the dove picture you're showing above would need some heavy color balancing. the woman who's never seen a day of sun in her life as well as the woman next to her all need unique tonal adjustments to hold the details of their skin and white garments. furthermore, group shots rarely, if ever, have all participants looking their best. it's pretty standard practice to combine different shots to one "ideal" portrait.

meechybee

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

iplaudius — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:12:20 EDT

@lionel-mandrake: Seriously. No cellulite, no mottling, no stretch marks, no wrinkles, no lumpiness, no scratches, no bruises. Give me a break! It’s obvious.

Anyway, I thought the point was these women were not anorexic, that they were in many cases “full figured.” Or did I miss the point? Were they actually supposed to be homely or even ugly?

Anyway, the article on Dangin is very cool.

iplaudius

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

HamptonShmampton — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:09:54 EDT

There's some nice real women in Playboy

HamptonShmampton

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

BaconCat — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:09:21 EDT

@MinneFilly: Idunno, they kept the cankles.

BaconCat

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Zorica — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:08:58 EDT

Are we still allowed to be happy that the models weren't whittled down to Stick Stickly impersonators? Can this be "lacked a little?" Or does this make them absolutely as bad as all the other unreality-perpetuators?

Zorica

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

BunnySoup — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:07:39 EDT

@StonedAndDethroned: If that is a comment directed at the children's song, it is referring to the one woman that appears to be so pale she gleams. Mommy had it on television and I was singing it today and making my cereal spoon dance in the air to the beat! Whee!

BunnySoup

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

AuntPeniston — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:06:41 EDT

@WackoJacko: Jesus don't want that kind of lovin'.

AuntPeniston

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

WackoJacko — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:03:30 EDT

@AuntPeniston: But what about all her Jesus love?

WackoJacko

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Chaim Gnadelstein — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:02:13 EDT

I'm more interested in the fact that Leibovitz and Meisel could basically light a picture with a single bare 60-watt and get a VF cover from it after Dangin's worked it over.

Chaim Gnadelstein

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

lionel-mandrake — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:01:49 EDT

Oh lord. I got into it with the Jezzies about retouching during that whole Redbook kerfuffle a while back.

Every ad in the entire world is retouched. Every pimple, every hair, every pore, every dimple.

Of course the Dove ads were retouched. Nobody's skin is that smooth and blemish-free.

Hell, I had my wedding pictures retouched.

lionel-mandrake

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

StonedAndDethroned — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:00:43 EDT

What are these 'women' things you speak of?

StonedAndDethroned

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

businesspearl — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:59:40 EDT

the lack of cellulite made it immediately obvious

businesspearl

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

BunnySoup — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:59:29 EDT

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

BunnySoup

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

AuntPeniston — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:59:18 EDT

@WackoJacko: Thanks a lot. I had just stopped having nightmares about Gorgyle Lady.

AuntPeniston

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

StyleSwag — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:58:03 EDT

I never understood the premise of these ads. If I wanted to see a 'real' woman with all the effing flaws, I would just look in the mirror.

Why the heck would I buy a product that's going to keep me looking 'real.'

I want the sh*t that's going to transform me into Elizabeth Hurley overnight, while I still have twinkee crumbs on my upper lip.

StyleSwag

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

Bell County — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:57:10 EDT

@WackoJacko: This is why could never make it through an episode of Seventh Heaven.

Bell County

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

VirusWithShoes — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:55:24 EDT

So - even when advertising tells the truth, it lies?

Shocked!

VirusWithShoes

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

WackoJacko — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:54:03 EDT

@WackoJacko: And I wouldn't retouch her with a forty foot pole.

WackoJacko

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

WackoJacko — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:53:35 EDT

Until this lady is on that campaign, I don't buy any of the "Real Beauty" crap.

WackoJacko

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

nottobeconfusedwith — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:53:08 EDT

He should have given the woman in the middle a little melanin. Yikes.

nottobeconfusedwith

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

MinneFilly — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:53:07 EDT

these women either won the genetic lottery or there was retouching of these photos: "real" women and not a one has a single stretch mark or some cellulite? come on.

MinneFilly

Dove's 'Real' Women: Fakes?

debord at work — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:51:09 EDT

The company that owns dove also owns slimfast, so i think there was actually hypocrasy from the start.

debord at work