it takes a lot to laugh

@crotchety: Maybe we just need to try an "open relationship." Or maybe even the occasional threesome.

Mediahohoho

crotchety

Why would the Palestinian Authority want to negotiate with Israel if the referee is on the other team?

We sooooooo need a president who will actually stick his neck out and convince Israel to tear down the settlements.... even though in the insane minds of some people that's anti-semitic.

Botswana Meat Commission FC

Mediahohoho

What's funny about this is that many people overseas say America is a drag on Israel's reputation.

crotchety

Mediahohoho

Mediahohoho

Mike_Jahn

YourGoldKeith

Mike_Jahn

ellagood

Priam

as soon as the people of this country grow the fuck up and begin seeing themselves as a united front of AMERICANS, things will finally start to happen.

ellagood

(And your analogy makes perfect sense! A philosophical conservative endorsing a super-liberal politician is just like a campaign manager endorsing the person he campaigned for. Genius.)

Moff

@moff: Ew. Don't quote Sullivan in my general direction. I don't care what he's saying ... it'll take me a week to clean his Obama love stains off my clothes. After years of claiming the Atlantic as my favorite magazine and putting up with its weaknesses since Michael Kelly left, the closest I came to writing it off completely was when they ran that multipage Obama blowjob by Sullivan. Why not just have Rove write an article about how great Bush is?

SpecialK

They aren't super-religious, but go to temple on the high holidays and are pro-Israel. They believe Obama knows what he is doing and support his entire agenda, including the Israel part.

Since marrying him and taking his name, I have for the first time had my eyes opened to the anti-Semitism that still exists in this country. I'm not talking about discussions involving Israel, I'm talking ground level, "Jews are different than we are," kind of anti-Semitism. Jokes, innuendos, general not understanding, etc. Not a lot, but still to a level that is shocking to me. As a gentile, I am now seeing this (and feeling it, as it is directed at those I love) for the first time.

In terms of personality, life experience, and general outlook, I believe Obama is the only candidate in the race who can potentially bring this country beyond some of the racial and other divides that we have. It may be naive, but I'd rather vote for the positive change that I want to have happen then resign myself to the typical political bullshit that I know would happen.

SlickaNicka

seeing your agenda as chaotic cretinism. Come back and see us when you've moved

beyond received opinion.

sailor

Helman

jackvinyl

I'm surprised nobody has referenced this line in the post,Still. Jews are paranoid people! I don't have a d/g in this fight but we all know that labeling an entire people "paranoid" probably isn't a solid foundation for a discussion...

That being said, the two Josh Sterns that I knew in college were some paranoid-ass stoners... I mean extra-phishy paranoid...

that's my contribution.

jackvinyl

Let's face it: the Clinton camp went into this thinking the nom was theirs, that her candidacy was a done deal. OOPS! And it will take them a little while to get over that "oops," you know, the same way it takes a while to recover from a narwhal sticking its proboscis up your butt. But the Democratic Party in general is not the party of holding grudges, so Clinton will bow out gracefully in the end, throw her support behind Obama, and watch as Barack falls in flames to John "I've Kinda' Got My Shit Together, Y'all" McCain come November. Sad, I know, but true. The Dems did this to themselves; it's okay to admit it.

In Other News...

Lysergic Asset

But seriously, the man has never said a discouraging word about Israel and his demeanor and political style is notable in its opposition to older, more radical Black leaders.

...I laughed, and knew it was a Pareene post.

FitnessMadeSimple

Bell County

Would someone do me the great favor of explaining to me why some Clinton supporters say that if she doesn't get the nomination, they'll vote for McCain? I would really appreciate understanding the logic behind that decision.

Lysergic Asset

Helman

JinxyMcDeath

Helman

JinxyMcDeath

iplaudius

Talk has been exhausted and there should be more of a push from the Arabs to disown the radical groups rather than siding with them.

cassandra

cassandra

UnreliableNarrator

It seems to me that it is not criticism per se but rather a certain focus on Israel that becomes anti-Semitic. Consider, for example, that the person who would write, by way of comparison to the Holocaust, “Ignoring Israel’s worse crimes against humanity requires at least some degree of craziness.”

Really? Have we considered the full scope of human rights violations historically and globally and found Israel to be so exceptional as to warrant such condemnation?

Or perhaps we’re focused on Israel for other reasons? (Yes, UnreliableNarrator, you did say that you are of Jewish extraction, but we are talking about arguments, not tribes.)

When I hear the same strident voices protesting the treatment of women, homosexuals, and religious minorities in predominantly Muslim countries, then I’ll pay a little bit more attention to this “criticism.”

iplaudius

Lazy Susan

Incher_George

Lysergic Asset

Incher_George

Most Jews I know hate it when they're referred to as a "Jewish voter," because that doesn't describe them or their policy preferences at all. It describes the small minority of Jewish Americans who are single-issue-voters: Israeli security.

UnreliableNarrator

Moff

Bell County

Especially if you're using it to refer to Tom Clancy.

valet_of_the_dolls

Incher_George

Lysergic Asset

+ Watch video

Not the best publicity, in my opinion.

The One

Lazy Susan

Lazy Susan

Incher_George

In Other News...

NeverEnough

LoveHandles

In Other News...

The conservative religious Israelis tend to be two things: orthodox and American-born. The latter means that the tenets of their religion exclude them from military service. The former means that they moved to Israel because they are big believers in the Israeli cause. The rich ones move to Jerusalem (they love to talk about how much Jerusalem neighborhoods remind them of the West Village...seriously) where they organize very effectively to yield disproportionate political power against the more moderate, Israeli-born majority. The poor ones move to the settlements (West Bank, etc), where the idea is to physically displace Palestinians one-by-one.

Israelis who move to the settlements (and who, for the reasons above, are hawks who don't serve in the military) are blamed for a lot of the violence. Perhaps justly - Israel doesn't need the land and it antagonizes Palestinians to a degree that yields nasty results, often in the form of terrorist attacks in heavily-populated Tel Aviv where, get ready for some irony, most Israelis hate the settlers just as much as the Palestinian do. Most Israeli companies refuse to serve settlers (I'm told most supplies have to be smuggled in, and that stuff like peanut butter is treated as an ultra-rare luxury). The IDF has even gone into the settlements a few times to kick out the Israeli settlers because they cause so much trouble.

Who knew international security policy could be so heavily ironic? Sorry again for typing so much.

UnreliableNarrator

"You wouldn't know a burning bush if it blew up in your face" ~ Don Henley

Lysergic Asset

iplaudius

Lazy Susan

Incher_George

it takes a lot to laugh

Notyourmother

As far as occupation goes, I did not realize that this was a distinguishing trait of the U.S. and Israel only. Is it? Or has your reading failed you here too?

iplaudius

Bell County

Incher_George

After all, the most hawkish Israelis tend to be orthodox and thus get out of military service by way of their religious commitments. Which is ironic in like 40 different ways.

If that wasn't what you meant, um, nevermind.

UnreliableNarrator

Israel is socialist (esp. as compared to the US), the US is capitalist. But we both occupy foreign lands, so I guess you're right about sharing cultural values.

it takes a lot to laugh

In a post that finds its leverage in belittling Jewish sensitivity to real or perceived threats, and following any number of comments that find their leverage in same, it's a relief to see someone unselfconsciously use what Jews revere as the sacred name of God as something to be laughed at.

As for Pareene having big ones, well, I've never really noticed that pissing off or offending Jews was something reserved for only the tough and the brave.

On the other hand, were Pareene to say something offensive about the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), the sahabah, the Qu'ran, or Islam in general, that attracted significant attention from the Muslim world, we'd be able to see whether Pareene needed a pair of Neuticles.

PERSONAL TO BELL COUNTY: Don't worry, Bell. No Jew is going to hack this system in order to track you down, slit your throat, and shove a knife into your chest, or even firebomb your home or place of work. That's part of the reason why it's so much fun to get saucy with us in the first place.

Hamud Ibn Hamud

Incher_George

JoelTannenbaum

1) There are a bunch of Jews in America, and the big-name, high-volume Jewish orgs that claim to speak for all of us typically don't. Think back to college: how many campus Jews were in the Jewish frat? Like four, and they all hated Iran and posted a shitload of fliers about why Israel should be as big as Texas. How many Jews were in PiKA or Phi Tau or no frat and generally agreed with most rational people about foreign affairs, even w/r/t Israel? Like all of them.

2) Obviously Israel *is* a sore, and the American Jews who support Israel's irrational craziness tend to just do so because they feel guilty about they/their parents moving to America and escaping the holocaust. Ignoring Israel's worse crimes against humanity requires at least some degree of craziness.

3) The big-name, high-volume Jewish orgs are composed of the same nutjobs in the Jewish frat from college (see #1), except now they have a lot of money. They're basically all neocons (not to mention crazy: see #2), but voting republican isn't socially acceptable on the Upper East Side so they pretend to be democrats and then vote for candidates who are also republicans pretending to be democrats.

4) Joe Lieberman is about as liberal as Dick Cheney's hunting rifle.

5) Hillrod sealed the support of Jewish orgs forever when she threatened to "obliterate Iran," which is both pro-Israeli and crazy, the two most important traits for most Jewish orgs.

6) Still, I think most Jews tend to prefer Obama, making the point moot. (My objective, non-anecdotal evidence for this? Uh, I'll get back to you.)

7) Sorry this is long.

UnreliableNarrator

Actually, the answer is 'no', but you're not allowed to say that those who believe it is 'yes' are clueless about the history of the Middle East, (as well as the history of the US government's covert actions around the world - that have nothing to do with the Middle East at all). Disagreeing with policies toward Israel doesn't make a person anti-semitic, however a significant number of anti-semites do use false claims about Israel as cover.

GothamTomato

Incher_George

There can be no foreign policy without long-term goals. One goal of U.S. foreign policy has been to support democracies and countries that share similar cultural and economic values. Israel has remained an ally for that reason.

Would a serious presidential candidate be so naive as to suggest, in the same breath, that we both overturn abiding principles of American foreign policy and alienate traditional allies?

iplaudius

richardmarxhatesmyhair

DonPardoCalrissian

Bell County

wins colonic to get you off the pot.

sailor

I must say, I'm really glad you called out Douchewitz. That intellectually dishonest slapdick equates the forecast of a cloudy day in Tel Aviv with the re-opening of Dachau. Fuck him.

Nard

Lysergic Asset

Mike_Jahn

Incher_George

Bell County

and since she's married to Alan Greenspan... well, she should know.

dutchtwista

Moff

JoelTannenbaum

[andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com]

Moff

iplaudius

Bell County

John McCain has been linked to chicken fuckers.

Moff

That said, Barack Obama doesn't need the Jewish vote--or their money--that badly. Certainly not enough to go picking a Jewish or a Jewishish VP. The Jewish vote happens to be concentrated in states that are going to vote Democratic anway.

If Barack Obama has half a brain (and he does), he's picking Jim Webb as his VP. De does that, McCain can just pack up and go home.

SpecialK

@JoelTannenbaum: WHY DO YOU HATE THE JEWS???!?

Moff

puleeze.

scarletmenace

Nard

[www.huffingtonpost.com]

the cajun boy

And here we have the absolute intellectual bankruptcy of the right in a nutshell. How the fuck can you say a candidate "has been linked to the PLO and Hamas" just because they talked about him? It's the ultimate in guilt by association.

See, what's lacking (as usual--it's a veritable Fox News staple) are any active verbs or actors. Who's linking? Who?
Jesus? This shit fucking killed democracy. We're just dancing on its corpse.

Mediahohoho

Pareene, you have got balls as big as church bells.

skahammer

richardmarxhatesmyhair

sailor

scarletmenace

TheologicalSong

Bell County

Incher_George

richardmarxhatesmyhair

Mediahohoho

Private Hangnail

Multiphasic

Mediahohoho

Typically, Huffpo is missing the point about Obama's underwhelming showing in

yesterday's primary.

sailor

It has nothing to do with his VP, whoever it ends up being. There is too much powerful influence in Washington for him to not support them like previous presidents.

maevro

JoelTannenbaum

famousauthor

Wendy_Kroy