PrincessKashmir

i don' read jezebel for most of the standard reasons, but i agree that what you described sounds very sad. not liberated. not joyous. not self empowered. just sad.

i am hoping the culture takes a turn away from it.

if_i_only_had_a_heart

Go Like Hell Machine

Go Like Hell Machine

Just joshin'

bigleggedwoman

azi

Whee!

*My own lemon-based contribution to this thread.

Tea Em Gee Eff

PrincessKashmir

I would like to add to the clusterfuck, because I'm that maniacal (and all apologies to Ian, who did a fine job keeping his cool over the weekend). I, like Wookie, don't really have a high opinion of Slut Machine, not because I'm not cool with girls getting laid -- I'd have to be a masochist to think that way. And I have found some of her writing to be incredibly brave, especially the piece on her rape fantasy.

But there is something utterly unseemly and sad about a person who sleeps with people she doesn't even know or know that well on a really, really regular basis. (And yes, I feel the same way about the guy version, too, so don't start.) SM, specifically, is so in your face and so quick to point out how liberated she is, yet equally quick to succumb to any critique of her whatsoever with the damned cliched "you must not be comfortable with yourself. How sad." That would be like me suggesting that her sluttiness must stem from having low self-esteem.

Just because I find her antics repulsive doesn't mean I'm not comfortable with myself. I love sex, as any normal person does, and am lucky to be married to someone who feels the same way and who is as into new things as I am.

It's the manic feel of SM's stories that gets to me, like her cavalier retelling of them gives some sort of higher meaning to her behavior, like being proud of blowing a dude you just met in after snorting coke in some random bathroom is something we should all aspire to. Yay for sexual liberation, but yay for dignity, too. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

(And BTW, I would not have said a damn thing if she hadn't outed Wookie yet again.)

PrincessKashmir

Kim Gordon's Panties

And for someone who repeatedly hates on Jezebel, why click on this post? is it just to see your writing on the screen which translates to you liking the sound of your own voice which translates to you could be as annoying as the Jezebel website you hate so much

bess marvin, girl detective

@bess marvin, girl detective: You know, if BangieB is one of the people you think are "good writers", you're really not qualified to judge.

Ugh. I'm just never clicking on this thread again as long as I live. UGh ugh. I'm holding a butane flame to my eyeball right now. I can hear the liquid boiling.

Pope John Peeps II

CopyofBlueboy

rubyruby

With that being said, 760 comments? What is this, a foxymoron thread?

bess marvin, girl detective

crumb-bun

Je t'aime. Tu es tres intelligent et amusant, toujours.

Je suis désolé, je quitterai la Jezebelle tout de suite et retournerai à mes études. ;)

bria

CaptainFantastic

Oh gawd are you talking about me again?!

Blujai

WholeLottaLenya

rose0red

Retournez-vous au lycée.

braak

Nothing to see here.

KarenUhOh

SarahHeartburn

I'd like to end this by saying that I first came across Jezebel when Meg Cabot linked to THE airbrush post. Yet I didn't become a commenter until December 2007. Because that's how much time I needed to get a feeling for the environment. I don't like it when people say they can't do this because they're too busy. Fuck it, I'm busy too. If you can't be bothered with dipping your toe in the water a couple of times before you jump in, then perhaps you deserve the heartattack you get when you do jump.

haguenite

jackvinyl

Utter-SHOCK-at-your-stupidity

bria

Un Chien Andalou

What are you apologizing for, you sleep-deprived goof? Go strip that girl's barrista title and make yourself a nice brew.

bria

Un Chien Andalou

sacapuntas

@cassandra: I understand where you're coming from. I actually hadn't read it, but I just did, and I don't see where it says that was the only profile she read? Anyway, I guess it depends on what you hope to get out of the blog. I thought Moe's piece was successful because it a) alerted me to an event I should have known about and didn't b) provided me with links to great reading c) gave a decent overview of some of her favorite pieces. I don't go to Jezebel for in-depth criticism; I see them more as a TV Guide for interesting shit on the internet. Their track record for finding things that interest me is pretty good, and I get to read it and judge for myself. The narrative part is less important. Still important, but not necessarily a deal-breaker for me - they're often funny, and that seems to be the purpose of the navel-gazing parts (Jezebel editors are drunk sluts! Just like us!). I don't want more from them; my e-attention span is short (Crappy Hour is toooo long), and it's difficult to be funny, insightful, intelligent, and engaging in a couple paragraphs. As long as they can consistently hit upon a couple of those, then I'm down. They've successfully made me think about things in a different light and re-examine my opinions at times (see: LeBron/Giselle cover).

I do wish it were edited a bit better. There are some typos and totally confusing sentences.

sacapuntas

I think most commenters who said their opinions were swayed were referring to the sexist responses to Clinton in recent days, made them realize how a lot of the hate toward her is gender-based, and made them re-examine their own reactions to her and listen to her policies more. I didn't hear anyone say, awww she's sensitive and human now so I voted for her. And I pretty much read every political comment on here. But you know, thanks for a typically totally reductionist reading of it.

NY Times writer could have used that, but obviously had an agenda about how Jez was going to be portrayed.

marin79

PICKLES

bria

marin79

I'm getting mine in being a bonerkiller, cum laude.

bria

Un Chien Andalou

BAngieB

marin79

bria

LipstickLibrarian

I am jealous...mostly of the lemon squares.

Tea Em Gee Eff

Really?

Wow. As an (apparently) uncool Jezebelle, I think I'm offended. Or maybe just surprised. I didn't realize this was fucking high school.

rose0red

And? it was the non-stop mentions of JA that was the last straw on Gawk - I think you invented her. Jez has its' own straw personages, as well, such as any person hailing from The Hills, and I skip those posts automatically. We ALL skip what we don't like and read what we DO like and so it shall continue ad infinitum. As you were.

WholeLottaLenya

cassandra

BAngieB

sacapuntas

@bananaballs: Nor have I. I'm sorry if I sound like a total asshole, but......while I love some of the connections and online friendships I've made, that seems like a bit much. For me, that is.

Although, the thought of SR and Moe meeting up for drinks made me smile.

Archetype

BAngieB

marin79

Which I guess explains why I've been lurking for over 700 comments before mustering the balls to pipe in. I read Jezebel pretty religiously and definitely comment when I feel inspired, but it really amazes me how personally people take the whole comment culture thing. But if people are renting houses together, fer chrissakes, damn...I have yet to show up to a NYC jez meetup, and you guys are vacationing together?! It's like being the last one to hit puberty all over again!

bananaballs

Hez

Seriously, as a reader I find Jezebel a CONSTANT disappointment, and it's not (just) the commenters. The writers aren't really capable of leading the reader where they need to do. The half-assed, me-first brand of "feminism" there is like the "Porn Star" shirts that those 14-year-old girls used to wear. Nothing cool or third-wave about it. The stoned, slutty, giggly, emotional thing? Yeah, not doing a lot for making women look smart. Like, hating women's magazines isn't a policy statement.

cassandra

BAngieB

KrissyLikeWoah

Lymed

BAngieB

Maria

Maria

NefariousNewt

BAngieB

ElitistQueenBeeBitch

Just don't drop the Spirit Stick. You'll never live it down.

LipstickLibrarian

Un Chien Andalou

BalknChain

Sorry....

Archetype

Hez

myrtlebeachbum

BowlingForDollars

BalknChain

Style Queen

Come visit Jezebel. There is a lot of great stuff on the site that I think often gets overlooked when "ZOMG girls are fighting!" threads get the attention, sadly.

hortense

Un Chien Andalou

Shit. That would have been funnier if I had linked to Trixie's prom comment like I meant to. (@Trixie from Toronto)

nowimpissed

Now I'm off to go make out with Trixie's boyfriend and eat cupcakes.

nowimpissed

BalknChain

katastic

It didn't mention me at all.

braak

Listen, I just read ALL THE COMMENTS and I feel dirty. First I thought I'd start my own blog within this post, but then I decided the better idea would be never to comment on anything ever again, on the Internet or in real life.

Goodbye, Gawker media. Execute me, please.

videogoddess

Un Chien Andalou

Trixie from Toronto

dangerslut

As for the general commenting atmosphere - man - I just wish people would think for two seconds about whether their comments offer anything to the discussion, if only because posts get SO LONG. Like I said, I don't have time to read that shit! There was a period of time after the How-to-Comment post where the threads were at least below 100 comments on average, and that was nice, but enough time has elapsed so that things are back to normal. Perhaps we should periodically re-post it? Link to it on the main page? Something? We are not Perez Hilton. It's not to "first!!!" levels, but not that far from it, either.

@SinisterRouge: Thanks, it's a good word. I know some of my real life friends post on Jezebel (or at least read it), but I have no idea what their usernames are. YOU COULD BE ONE OF THEM. Hi Lisa!

Hilarity: After that bitching, I now have a star. Did someone do that just to make me look like a hypocrite?

sacapuntas

Can I say, "Oh it's already been broughten"?

?@nowimpissed:

I see what you're saying. Just as you want to continue reading thought-out and witty comments, the best way to foster that is to lead the way in promoting a feeling of security for new posters rather than insecurity.

I think what I can say is that we perhaps, disagree on the dynamic a site like Gawker or Jezebel is supposed to be.

I'm in the camp of, if the editors let me post after my initial audition post, that's all any newbie should ever have to hear about the quality of their posts. And if the editors (obviously that includes comment mods too) think a newbie has somehow gone off the reservation with their posts, let them rein us in.

I just can't subscribe to thinking I'm a better commenter because I've been doing it longer than someone similarly situated.

@BowlingForDollars:

I agree as to the "lay of the land" comment, reference my responses to Hez above. Diplomacy, yes. Putting people on a pedestal, no.

dangerslut

ian spiegelman

Maria

Lymed

That way, one is usually welcomed, rather than scorned. I think that's all anyone is asking for on both Gawker and Jezebel.

BowlingForDollars

Maria

Hugs and kiss dearest--you know I picked you 'cause you're my fav.

nowimpissed

I don't comment that much, so I wouldn't say that I'm someone who is more special (or cool), but I will say that some of the people like Sinn and Kadinsky and BangieB and their ilk are. To be honest, they're the reason I kept coming back to Jez in the beginning. I would read every post I wrote twice before posting it to make sure that it was funny enough or informative enough to make the grade becuase I knew there were some funny ass smart women on the site and I wanted to impress them. That's what I'm trying to get at. I think people should be a little bit in awe of those who have shown themselves to be good writers, experts on some topic, or all around good commenters. They've got a proven talent and others should strive for that rather than saying we're all equal. Not all commenters are equal. Sure we're all nameless and faceless, but some are funnier than others. Some are smarter than others. Some know more about politics or fashion. I don't think it's length of time commenting that makes the difference though. I would include es-ki-mo in the "good commenter" group and some folks who have been around for ages (who I won't call out here b/c I'm not trying to be mean) in the "bad commenter" group. Sure, everyone is special. Like the despair.com poster says: You are a unique and special snowflake--just like everyone else. But when we're talking about which commenters I want to read, it's about what you bring to the table.

When the rules of the site include don't be boring or contribute to the echo chamber, it requires a lot of self-policing or else you have the situation we have right now. I just think if people thought, is this post worth saying, does it make the cut given what I've seen on this site, before they hit submit, we'd be in a much better place.

nowimpissed

LipstickLibrarian

Trixie from Toronto

hortense

dangerslut

PeachesDelux

I understand your frustration with new commenters. But you can't make statements like. . .

"You can't expect to walk in the first day and have everyone think you're as cool as the folks who have been around for a while."

and not get called out for reinforcing the old guard/newbie divide.

The fact you started posting before me or anybody else doesn't make you more or less special than me. We are the same. Nameless. Faceless.

We aren't asking to be cool kids. Shit, we just want to exercise our ability to post as the next person--within the rules of the site, of course, always, goes without saying SO much that it obviously needs to be said--and not have to hear ad nauseum how I wasn't here on the first day the site went online.

Be happy that new people have found the Gawker sites and community and want to be apart of it instead of dividing yourself off from us.

dangerslut

@Lymed: I never meant to imply that you started any war... I really have no idea who started what last night, but I didn't see you saying anything that I thought was fucked up. For the most part, I think the whole thing should just end with amnesty for all parties involved.

P.S. Jim Jarmusch has just become the best celebrity guest on The Simpsons ever. Ryan, or one of the day editors, fucking has to post it.

ian spiegelman

Hez

There's wireless in most BarBri classrooms. Just sayin'.

And that's what I love most about Jez too--finally someone gets that you can be a raging feminist and have a complex and meaningful love/hate relationship ANTM.

nowimpissed

@SinisterRouge: I love that Jezebel embraces my desire to post about health reform and know whats up with crazy girl Tyra. I don't know what I'll do when my bar review starts in 2 weeks and I can't read or post during the day.

Lymed

Hez

But a lot of the "newbies" just don't seem to get the tone of the site and the 200+ inane comments (case in point, the big to do about the "I like her shoes!" comment) make it something that people who have been reading the site for a long time don't want to read anymore. If something has been part of your life (even just as a time waster at work) to see it go down the drain because everyone wants to be able to say whatever comes into their head, it's just a little frustrating. I like wasting time at work. I don't want to have to spend all day on ICHC. They don't update that much and I start speaking in LOLs by midday.

I'm not saying that newbies shouldn't comment, hell, I'm loving Meg and es-ki-mo, but if you are going to comment, make sure you have something to say. I'll read a dumb comment by Trixie (not that you have any love) because she's cracked me up a thousand times before. At the 50th stupid comment in a thread by someone I've never seen before, I kind of lose my patience. The older commenters have earned my respect for their writing. The newer ones can, and some totally have, but it's not automatic. You know? You can't expect to walk in the first day and have everyone think you're as cool as the folks who have been around for a while.

nowimpissed

hortense

Like I said, I get what you're saying now. I hear ya.

dangerslut

Seriously though, for all my bitching on this thread and in general. I LOVE JEZEBEL. There's nothing like it. I've mad great friends, both real and imagined. I get to talk politics with women that know the latest in the primary AND watch the Hills. I love that we can talk about vibrators with Tracie and Economics with Moe.

One of the best threads in memory was one about getting spanked. It was awesome.

We may be earnest to a fault at times but overall the site is great.

SinisterRouge

ian spiegelman

katastic

Hez

Lymed

@dangerslut: I said there are also, meaning, yes, there are posts that are meant as hurtful. I usually ignore them and s.o.b. (scroll on by). Unfortunately, I realize that's harder for new commenters to do because it's not a safe place to them.

To the Gawker commenters: I have enjoyed getting to know you all this weekend and we really don't brand. We leave that to the crazy sorority sisters at Hofstra.

Lymed

PantyWaist

Hez

dangerslut

@Hez: I cringe if I catch a Jezebel commenter here trying to talk smack to the Gawker regulars or being generally dumb. Cringe-y to be sure.

SinisterRouge

I hear you saying now that a little diplomacy goes a long way.

But that ain't what you said at even second or third blush in that first post.

Case in point--you acknowledge that you thought the post was flippant--and then went on to state that what really irked you wasn't that she didn't use diplomacy, but that she didn't respect "someone is one of the more prolific commenters here."

That goes to the very heart of the old guard/newbie dichotomy--in this case, the poster is a "newbie" because she isn't one of the old guard on Gawker and you're one of the most "prolific" commenters on this site.

Again, if y'all don't want us to post--take away our privileges. OR, just admit that what you really want is to be indulged for the mere fact that you were here first. At least be honest about that.

dangerslut

@SinisterRouge: Yeah, it kind of makes it look like we're all insensitive shallow assholes though. I don't think the article is representative of what goes on here at all. Kind of disappointing.

blackbirdfly

Lymed

Lymed

Hez

@>--->--->---

Anyways, can't we talk about something else? Like how some of your guys apparently rented a house? What was up with that?

Maria

(1)declaring that "old school" commenting privileges are inherently greater than "new school" privileges is about as dubious as the famewhores on MTVs RRRR challenges declaring themselves "veterans." get over yourself. go police the comment section of your own blog.

(2) i enjoy SM's writing. like wookie, i believe she fabricates some of her material. that said, i don't give a shit. i enjoy her.

what i do find distasteful, however, is her sense of entitlement and inability to handle criticism. when you hold yourself out as one of the krazee interweb's cast of characters, you will be subject to criticism. it goes with the territory. gawker/jezebel/whoever's refusal to reprimand her seems to only reinforce her self-righteous behavior. when she behaves in this manner, she only lessens jezebel's credibility.

which is sad, because i adore jezebel.

noxiousbeast

dangerslut

ian spiegelman

I get the criticism but I really think that a lot of it is real-life friendship that comes through. I honest to goodness cannot be bothered with the fights that break out over popularity and all that nonsense. I like to fight politics and very little else.

I don't feel that my friends act like Queen Bees but rather find the term funny since we're all a bunch of nerds that made friends on the internet.

SinisterRouge

We are both nameless and faceless.
We both deserve respect and dignity that should be unrelated to the quality or quantity of our posts.

and if the site's attitude (exemplified by allowing it's "alpha" posters to rule the roost) is that my comments are not appreciated then why let me sign up to comment in the first place?

dangerslut

Fight has been picked! Oh noes.

sacapuntas

It makes Jez come off very lame in a way.

SinisterRouge

In asking the following, I don't condone the original comment that led to this post.

BUT,

I just read your comment. And re-read it. And re-read it. And the mention of "alphas", "turf", "and manners are required when visiting," "some of us have some standing here," seems to be the best representation of comments in this thread that generally state newcomers and new commenters are not appreciated. Nor welcome. And please, let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya on your way out.

Or at the very least, the exercise of commenting in blogs is not one for the masses-- newcomers and new commenters beware if you're not witty or snarky enough.

I get understand to some degree the hate towards banality in the comments sections. That's not what this reply to your comment was about.

I just see a fundamental difference between asking for basic respect in not being attacked simply because you choose to leave a comment versus don't attack me because this is my turf and I've been commenting longer than you have.

If it's the latter, please someone in change of Gawker media on both sites, do all of us newbies a favor and don't give us commenting privileges. Take them away post haste. I wasn't with it enough to learn of Jezebel during it's maiden voyage and have somehow missed out on an opportunity to comment w/o fear I'll get attacked for my newbyness (or anyone in my position for that matter). Post a big ol' sign at the top of all Gawker media sites saying something to that effect, please.

dangerslut

blackbirdfly

Also, I read all 642 comments before commenting.

Where's my fucking lemon square?

HelloTitty

Calraigh

Hez

BalknChain

Un Chien Andalou

BalknChain

Un Chien Andalou

Does not Ms. Egan realize that when she does stuff like this, she makes Jez look more and more like high school and less and less like the Jez we used to know back in June of 2007?

Does she also not know she's also making Ms. Holmes look bad, too?

If nothing else, Ms. Egan really should read Jalopnik's Commenting Class on Commenting Class, since it seems to be something, as demonstrated in this post, she needs more of.

But let's not kick Moe out; most of her writing may be tc;dr (c = confusing), but at least she can handle our critques.

And speaking of The Cancer That Is Killing Jezebel...

@katastic: I third the notion to cull the herd, even if it means having one less Gawker blog to visit as a commenter. Anything to give Jezebel the chemo she so badly needs.

Cameron Tredici

I guess we will just have to wait and see...

Tea Em Gee Eff

Helman

Tea Em Gee Eff

we'll all ever *play-nice*, but isn't that the fun of being a jezebelle?

Piecesofpi

VirusWithShoes

Lymed

Helman

Calraigh

Now maybe everyone would stop their bitching and moaning if they were stuffing their face with one of those little slices of heaven.

sympathyforthedevil

Lymed

Lymed

PeachesDelux